a future well-designed: on connection, creativity & collaboration

Introducing Courier Design

A2: To start off, what are you guys focusing on right now with Courier Design?

Ethan: A lot of what we are focusing on right now is packaging design and brand identity. Those are two things that we focus on a lot, and it's a lot of fun. Beer packaging seems to be a big thing right now that we're working on, and that has continued to evolve, which has been a blast.

A2: I've been seeing that on your page for a while. What about you, Bree?

Bree: We're starting to bring a lot of animation into the branding that we've been making, and I'm really excited about that. We've worked on a couple of projects with web design and things like that, but we're going to keep pushing that further as much as possible whenever the client is ready for it.

A2: Is the animation something that has barely started, or have you already been messing around with it to see how it works for you guys?

Bree: I had a little bit of experience with animation within my background at an agency. But just recently, we have really been pushing forward to include that as a service for Courier Design. I think that's something people can really value visually, rather than just having their logo remain static. If they want to use it in video content, it's great.

A2: Definitely, because it's starting to feel as if we're all media companies in a sense. Everybody that has a brand identity and wants to really push it forward has to continue to think of ways to make their business concept pop in front of everyone. I think that's really awesome.

Before Courier Design was an official entity, how did the idea spark? Ethan, you started it a bit before you two joined forces, correct?

Ethan: Courier Design actually started a little bit before Bree and I even started talking. I wanted to have a legal name, so I came up with the name "Courier" from the idea of being not just a messenger, but someone who delivers something simple, straightforward, and long-lasting. Since we started our relationship, that concept evolved. I wanted her to be involved because she has a lot of skills and ideas that I don't have. It works really well where we balance each other's strengths and weaknesses out; I can focus on my strengths, and she can focus on hers.

A2: Bree, do you want to talk about your background on the agency side before stepping into Courier?

Bree: Before putting my work into Courier Design, my experience was based at an agency where I worked with a lot of animation. I was basically a mini art director in a way, so I was in charge of a lot of clientele work that helped them launch their products. It was a lot of work and required wearing a lot of hats. A lot of that work was heavily tech-design based. Because of that, I really wanted to pivot and focus on more of a simplistic design philosophy. Ethan really helped open my eyes to that when we first started interacting.

Organic Connections on Social Media

A2: How did you two originally cross paths? Was it through the design community online?

Bree: It started before we even had conversations, back when I first started following him on Instagram. I was starting to dabble with trying to be simpler with my own designs, so his work was pretty interesting to me. That's kind of how our relationship started.

Ethan: We followed each other, I was interested in the content that she liked, and it just hit off from there. She liked the design content I posted. I experiment a lot on my page and try a lot of different things—sometimes it goes in a certain direction and then shifts back—but she happened to resonate with it, and that sparked a conversation.

A2: How long ago was all of this? I'm learning so much right now.

Ethan: It's funny, we don't really talk too much about how long ago it was because it has all gone by so fast.

Bree: It would have been 2016 from what I remember. It may have been before then that I followed you, because I followed a bunch of designers that I wanted to be influenced by, and he was one of them. We ended up talking to each other through Twitter. There was a design topic you were interested in, Ethan, and I asked you a question about it. It just kind of evolved from there. I want to say it might have been four or five years ago, maybe early 2016 around January.

A2: That's kind of wild because that was about the exact time that I started following you, Ethan. Then I started digging deeper and saw Bree, and realized you guys were together. That's so sick. As I said before, it's rare that you find two people in the same industry who hit it off like that on social media.

By the time Courier became a joint venture, it had been planted in your mind for a while, Ethan. Did the realization of your complementary strengths come from simply reaching a point where preparation met opportunity?

Ethan: It wasn't an instant thing. Obviously, as we grew together as designers, we discussed design thinking and different inspirations on a regular basis. We both actually have corporate day jobs, so navigating the struggles of those day jobs together naturally fed into our discussions. It's cool to have a partner where there is a full baseline understanding of the industry. The business just evolved naturally.

Bree: Ethan didn't mention bringing me into Courier for a while. But I saw that he had started the Instagram page for Courier Design, and eventually we had a conversation about what we envisioned for our creative future. He asked me if I wanted to stay at the agency job I was doing, and I said no. I wanted to do something better, something different. I always had it in the back of my mind that I wanted to work for myself as a freelancer; that was the bigger picture for me. That's when Ethan asked, "Do you want to do Courier Design with me?" I was like, "Yeah, why not? Let's do that."

Ethan: It was just coming to reality with the facts. Her agency experience brought a ton of Photoshop mastering and expertise with Kickstarter campaigns—learning how to display product designs, how to sell them, and how to communicate the benefits of a product. I never really had a background in that side of advertising, so that background really helps when we want to push for those types of projects. It's great to be versatile.

Consistency, Industrial Roots, and Overcoming Self-Doubt

A2: It's so interesting having this conversation now, a few years removed from when it all began. There is so much power in just putting your best foot forward and remaining consistent. That was the thing about your presence that I really appreciated: the consistency. A lot of people in the creative space get stuck in a rut because they will only be consistent if they get a particular look right away. You just kept going and trusted that the style would evolve over time.

We're all guilty of being stuck in our own heads sometimes. At what point did you tell yourself to leverage social media as a marketing platform to make this a real entity? Look at what it brought you—a business and a partner sitting right next to you.

Ethan: It completely blows my mind thinking about it because none of that was ever expected or planned out too heavily. With Instagram, it came out of my specific background. I didn't have a design job right out of college; I worked a normal manual labor job in a warehouse. That building is actually directly across from the building I work in today. Currently, my day job is working as a production designer for Victoria's Secret.

Back in the warehouse days, doing manual labor was tough, but it gave me a lot of time to think during a mindless job where I did the same repetitive tasks every day. That's when I started my Instagram around mid-2014. At the time, I was doing a lot of photo editing with grunge textures and moody tones. I was super into that environment. There was a niche community of people who loved moody nature photography with a lot of texture, and everyone was extremely supportive of each other. That community is what got me into Instagram even more.

Design history also has a huge impact on the work I do today. It is incredibly important to my process as a designer, and it pushes both of us to learn. I found accounts that displayed clean, straightforward work, and my personality resonated with that no-nonsense mentality. Everything in our past makes us who we are today. Working a manual labor job for two and a half years sucked, but I was influenced by industrial objects and things that are mechanical, heavy, and bold. I embraced it, and I carry those lessons over into my design work today.

A2: What I really like about that is the fact that you carved out time to share your craft despite having a demanding day job. When I started following you, I was in a similar place. I had gotten into music production about a year prior and wanted to find my sound, so I challenged myself to make something every single day for 100 straight days. It forces you into a creative mindset on a regular basis, which is something a lot of creatives ironically forget to do. It builds that consistency and establishes a community.

Bree, when you were starting to share your design work on social media, what was your mindset? Did you always have a penchant for graphic design, or did that develop later through job opportunities?

Bree: It definitely came about through job opportunities, but my personal Instagram started out being more based on my lifestyle and what I was up to socially. Eventually, I wanted an artistic outlet, so I started a 100-day project centered around watercoloring. I was going hard on it. I think that's when Ethan first started noticing that I was creating art on there.

I went to school for design, but I have a very traditional artistic background rooted in watercoloring, painting, and acrylics. I wanted to show that on my Instagram. My early design work was very illustration-based rather than focused on simple logo design. It was a gradual process of transitioning away from being purely a traditional artist.

To be honest, I got to a point where I felt discouraged because I would see massive design accounts with huge followings and endless content, and it made me hesitant to post my own work.

A2: We have to factor in that some of those massive accounts probably bought their followers anyway, so let's be real about that!

Bree: Exactly. It made me hesitate, but when Ethan and I started talking, I started posting more frequently. He asked me, "Why do you care about what people are going to say about your stuff?" I realized he was completely right, and my mindset shifted.

A2: I feel like everybody gets to that point of self-confrontation where you have to ask yourself why you're wasting time comparing your journey to others instead of just creating. What I love about your Instagram, Bree, is how seamlessly you integrate your design work with your actual lifestyle. It's very casual, honest, and approachable. Social media often involves a lot of reaching, but it's refreshing when people just live an honest life online.

What is the balance like between managing Courier Design, working your corporate 9-to-5 jobs, and navigating your relationship? Does it all just go hand-in-hand at this point?

Ethan: It definitely goes hand-in-hand. The parent company L Brands owns both Bath & Body Works, where Bree works, and Victoria's Secret, where I work. Our corporate buildings are directly across from one another, right next to the old warehouse where I used to work. It works out perfectly because of the location. Right after work, we are five minutes away from home, so we can immediately prioritize our projects and get things done quickly.

Outside of design, we love film and watch a lot of movies, and I play a lot of video games. We stay up late because you can't do everything we do without carving out some fun downtime to relax.

Bree: Our schedule really depends on the volume of client work we have. Some days we come home from our day jobs and immediately jump into collaboration to meet a specific deadline—one person will work on one section of a project while the other tackles another portion. It's a very relaxed, chill environment. It gets intense when deadlines are tight, but it's always fun.

Right now, we don't have any crazy client deadlines, which allows us to participate in creative challenges like 36 Days of Type and focus on passive income opportunities, like designing beer labels where companies select work from a pool of designers. It's great to have open blocks of time to dedicate to passion projects, print ideas, and experimental label concepts.

The Dynamic of Client Service and Corporate Design

A2: Do you find distinct advantages in operating in both worlds simultaneously—borrowing skills from the corporate 9-to-5 and feeding them directly into your freelance work?

Ethan: Definitely. It applies a bit differently to Bree because she had an immense amount of agency experience beforehand where she was independently challenged.

Bree: My current corporate job is a bit more streamlined because tasks are separated out across a large corporation, but what I bring to the table for Courier is web site design and animation. Animation became a skill I developed out of personal interest rather than day-to-day corporate tasks.

Ethan: Bree has gotten incredibly good at it. There is a massive amount of math and patience required for animation. We haven't showcased a lot of our 3D work publicly yet because we are highly self-critical, but we want to dive deeper into Cinema 4D, kinetic typography, and motion graphics.

Bree handles digital design for Bath & Body Works, and retail design at that corporate level is incredibly fast-paced. It's all about high-volume output as quickly as possible. In that environment, you don't always have the luxury to pause and ensure a design is completely timeless, because high-volume retail marketing is inherently built around emotional, impulse-driven buying.

A2: That brings a very interesting dynamic to light, because the corporate process behind emotional marketing is eye-opening regarding how design functions at scale.

Ethan: Large corporations are fascinating because there are so many overlapping layers of leadership. You simply have to do your absolute best to solve the specific problems you are handed. For me on the print production side, I've learned a ton of technical details that I can apply directly to our freelance work, like chocolate packaging or beer labels. The minor details matter immensely—measuring things out perfectly, ensuring exact color matching, and mastering Pantone codes. If you aren't deeply passionate about those precise details, then print design isn't the right field for you.

A2: It's exactly like music. You know all about that with your instrumentation—if a note isn't played exactly right, you have to practice until it is. The details matter.

Since Courier Design has established its visual footprint on Instagram, what have you learned throughout the process of manifesting this entity that could benefit the freelancers and entrepreneurs listening to this show?

Ethan: It's all about identifying what you love to do, focusing on that, and experimenting constantly. Back when I was in the warehouse operating a crane, I would take a small field notebook up sixty feet in the air. During downtime, I would sit up there and sketch out things that inspired me. Find the things that make you smile, figure out how to do them more often, and openly tell the people in your life that you love doing it.

It's crazy how many people hide their creative interests from those around them. Show the people around you what you are passionate about; you never know what opportunities it will create. I connected with people in that warehouse who ended up hiring me for small design jobs simply because I wasn't afraid to show them what I was into.

A2: You bring up an excellent point about confidence. People often experience an element of hesitation because building an independent business or an LLC is highly ambitious, and conventional mindsets often dismiss creative entrepreneurship as unrealistic. Bree, is there anything you've realized as an entrepreneur since Courier took fruition?

Bree: Don't be afraid to post your work. If you have an entrepreneurial idea or a side project you want to build, just do it. That specific side project could literally be the exact piece that defines your personal style, refines your creative process, or attracts the client who reaches out to hire you. Ethan constantly pushes me to remember that. Whether it's a full project or a simple social post, don't let fear hesitate you. It's just Instagram at the end of the day.

Ethan: Exactly. People project their own ideas and create arbitrary hierarchies about who is better than who. It's just human nature, and you have to get past it.

A2: That's an excellent perspective—just focus on creating great work.